Yesterday, I received a nice fat a catalog from that local "premiere" boating and fishing supply company in Waterford CT. Just going to copy and paste this as an FYI in case you missed it from last year..this is documentation and facts of my experience, not opinions.
Dear Mr. Lance,
This year I was in the market for a small outboard engine for our inflatable. After researching different companies and reviewing "Defender's "About us" section and learning this was a successful "family run" company right out of CT, I was impressed to see Defender even sent rescue boats out to Thailand. I wanted to support it, despite tax implications and travel from Meriden, CT.
On June 12th I walked into the show room and was greeted by a friendly and knowledgeable gentleman. Shortly after being educated on my options, I was convinced the Tohatsu 3.5 was the right engine for us based on its reliability.
I decided to purchase "new" instead of "used" off Craigslist specifically for safety reasons.
I read the owners manual that night, placed the motor on a stand and properly added new oil into the engine and added the fuel stabilizer recommended by the salesman to the fresh gasoline I purchased that day.
I ran the engine and allowed it to idle for 20 minutes in a container of water. Upon completion, I closed the gas vent and turned the fuel cock to the "off" position.
On Saturday June 15th, my children and I traveled to Stonington, CT and experienced severe difficulty starting the motor. It continued to stall at the boat launch. After an hour of pull starting the engine finally idled. However, when we shifted out of Neutral and into gear, the engine would again stall. This continued for another hour. Eventually, we were able to shift and travel at the lowest throttle level. Being a brand new engine and after reading about "break in" I thought this may have been extreme, but maybe the engine needed to be run. We continued towards Sandy Point and as soon as I would attempt to increase the throttle from the lowest position, the motor would stall. At one point, I was desperately trying to pull start the engine as we were being swept into the shore of Sandy point and crashed into the surf. In my panic to restart the motor, I injured my thumb and wrist pulling on the rope starter. The Stonington Police came over to assist us. This entire situation was very traumatic for the children. I assured them this was a new engine and we would be fine after it worked itself out.
After 10 hours on the water, we continued to experience stalling and never could travel more then the lowest throttle setting without stalling.
I sent an Email to Defender the following day describing the problem. I received a timely and polite response from your service manager. He instructed me to drain the gas from the carb and to make certain the oil level was appropriate.
After following his instructions, I spent an hour attempting to start the motor in my garage to no avail.
I made the trip from Meriden back to Waterford to have the engine serviced and left. Within 50 minutes, Bruce called me on my cell phone. He said the reason for the problem was "Bad Chinese gas." I explained I purchased a brand new engine for security reasons, and this was unacceptable. (Please note, this motor is manufactured in Japan.) I explained only a new replacement engine would be appropriate before taking my children back out on the water. Bruce immediately denied my request.
I did more research on "Defender" and located the President's name, Stephan Lance. I called the main number at Defender and used the dial by name option. I left a message for Stephan summarizing what I have written here.
The following Monday or Tuesday I received a call from "Scott." I asked why I wasn't being contacted by the president. Scott said he was the manager and the message was sent to him to follow up on. I explained my entire situation with the engine again and explained I felt it was appropriate to swap it for a new one. Scott was very cold, never made any effort to apologize for the engine failure and wanted to focus on the topic of Ethanol. Eventually he said he would "find out" if the engine could be returned. Scott called me the next day. He very slowly told me we had three options, One, You can drive out to Waterford and listen to your engine run because the carb has been cleaned and it is running fine. I said "No." He slowly said option number two, I found another Tohatsu dealer closer to where you live and you can work with them. I replied "No." He said the third option is we can return the current engine and replace it with a new one. I said, "That is all I asked for." Then Scott went on to the subject of Ethanol and attempted to persuade me into other options like buying a larger motor. I said no, I just want a new engine that has not be harmed during "break in." I would like to be there when it is removed from the box and fill with oil and fuel with a mechanic. He said "When can you be here." I said "noon." Scott sighed and said, I have a lot of mechanics out for travel on that day." I said when would you like me to be there? He said you can come at noon.
The next day I made the trip back to Waterford. I waited for 20 minutes for someone to help me. Bruce escorted me out to Bay One where a Tohatsu 3.5 engine sat in a tank of water. I was confused. Why am I standing in front of this engine which is obviously not new. Bruce said this engine runs very well and you can start it or I will. At present, the engine is cold. I started the engine and it had lots of black/blue smoke coming out of it and stalled as I was feathering the choke.
I suddenly felt someone walk up behind me and waited to hear a voice. Finally I turned around. It was Scott, he was looking at the floor and reached his hand out. I said "You are not going to make any eye contact?" This was uncomfortable, embarrassing and gave me a very "guarded" feeling. He laughed sarcastically. We eventually got the motor started. After I shut it off with blue/black smoke pouring out, I looked at Scott and said "How do I know this is a new engine?" He and Bruce said at the same time, this is "your" engine. I said "We discussed option three last night and I was to have a boxed new motor waiting here!" I was absolutely appalled. Scott said "Ohhh, Okay, I just wasn't sure if you wanted to listen to the engine run, I must have misunderstood." (With a bizarre smirk on his face.) I was escorted back out of the bay and into the storage area and waited while they located a new boxed up engine. Scott disappeared and Bruce and I went over engine operation, discussed fuel additive options and ran the engine.
We ran it for a short period of time and at a low throttle level. I thanked Bruce and left.
I arrived home and placed the engine on a barrel of water and allowed it to warm up and run for an hour. The next day, I warmed up the motor and ran for another hour. For the first time I attempt to throttle slightly past the half way mark and the engine bogs out and stalls just like the first engine. I restart the engine, it idles and as soon as I attempt to throttle in gear in the water, the engine stalls. I repeated this a dozen times with the same result. I created a youtube account, then recorded a video and uploaded to the youtube site so Bruce could see what was happening. I again with this second new engine, unscrewed the carb and drained with a rag. Still same problem. Bruce contacts me via Email, apologizes for the motor not running and states he is unable to watch the video due to Internet security. He told me I would need to make the trip back again with the engine for examination and repair.
On Saturday June 29th I made the trip from Meriden to Waterford again with this second new engine.
On Tuesday July 2nd, Bruce left me a voice message stating the engine is now running properly and ready to be picked up again in Waterford. He did not tell me what was causing the problem. At this point, I had little confidence in the reliability of the motor or if anything had been done at all . I was concerned about making another trip, testing it out in the bay and having the same problem.
I did make another trip however and asked Bruce what the problem with this second new engine was. He claimed the exhaust in my barrel of water was going back into the piston causing the engine to stall. I did not feel confident about this diagnosis.
I immediately drove the motor to the bay. It started and I allowed it to warm up for twenty minutes. The stalling continued, over and over. I was barely able to get to a speed above the idle mark and the engine flooded and stalled in the bay. The winds picked up and I was desperately in a panic to save myself from being crashed into the rocks. I took on waves, and my fishing net, my zip locked phone and poles were all knocked out of the boat and sank.
Previously on a phone call with Bruce, he did say he was able to forward my youtube video to a counterparts phone. So I made a new video showing the problem again in the bay during calm waters. I sent the video to him via Email.
I explained at this point, if Bruce was unable to resolve this issue, I would be contacting the manufacturer with questions and escalating this problem above "Scott." I did not get a call from Bruce that day and called Tohatsu. I spoke with a gentleman by the name of "Vic." He was kind, friendly, informative and a true professional.
He said out of the box, every motor runs very rich and it is necessary to drill out the "brass plug" on the side of the carb first.
The butterfly needs to be centered in the throttle bore. The air fuel mixture needs to be adjusted and the idol should be set at 1350 RPM.
He said I should take a look at the motor to see if the brass plug has been drilled out. Vic held and I went to the basement to discover no drilling had been performed.
"Vic" also said the small 3.5's get returned a lot because the mechanics don't understand these smaller motors take a "lot more tweaking" to get them going. He said the motors all need to be adjusted to where they are positioned on the back of the boat.
He added, Tohatsu provides special classes during the winter to get everyone up to speed on the intricacies of this motor, but he said whenever the motors are returned to Tohatsu, it is because the mechanic has not been schooled properly or taken enough time to set everything up properly. I was floored.
I sent an Email to Bruce explaining why the motor has not been running. Within twenty minutes I received a call from a restricted phone number and answered the call. It was "Scott." He said "I understand you have still been having engine problems." I said yes and explained everything including my call to the manufacturer. He said "At this point, we are going to give you a refund on the engine." I was immediately confused. The problem all along has been exposed. This was completely ignorance on the part of Bruce, the service manager. He could have called the manufacturer as I did and had the answer a month before. Bruce's boss, Scott never once in any of my dealings with him said he was sorry or expressed any type of compassion. He seemed to serve as more of an obstacle in getting my situation resolved especially with the "bait and switch" when I arrived for a new engine weeks prior. I said to Scott, "You are going to give me my money back?" He said "Yes and you can move on." So we now know why the motor did not run. No one is taking responsibility for it. Neither Bruce or Scott contacted Tohatsu to inquire about my engines inability to run properly. No one is apologizing and no one is making some type of attempt to salvage this very damaged relationship I've experienced with Defender. I could not speak and there was silence on the phone for at least thirty seconds. I told Scott to have Bruce call Tohatsu so they could explain what he needed to do to properly PDI this type of Tohatsu 3.5. and we ended our call.
I thought about the entire situation and realized no one was going to help make things right. I sent Bruce an Email an hour later and communicated I would accept the offer to drive back out to Waterford again and drop the motor off for a refund.
On Thursday, July 11th I arrived to drop off the motor. Bruce and I had a brief discussion in the bay area and I explained to him in a calm voice, I believe in treating people with respect and honesty. I said in this case, Defender did not stand behind their product and placed myself and my family in harms way not once, but several times. Bruce was very defensive and said "Tohatsu did not tell us how to PDI a motor that way." He also said "Vic should never have told you that information and by doing so "He through ME under the bus." I said, "He told the truth, and when you have a product on your shelves for sale, you need to take responsibility for knowing how to send the product out working in a safe condition." Bruce absolutely refused to take any type of responsibility. In fact, Bruce actually stated my dealings with him were "unpleasant." I pointed out calmly, "I have remained calm and professional with you during this entire month." I don't believe being disrespectful or loud resolves anything." "Customer Service was my business for ten years in Pharma I.T. and another ten years in technical support for the largest phone company in the U.S.
I still cannot absorb what occurred over the past month. It would be impossible for me to explain all the vivid details and hours of madness. Today, marks exactly one month since I bought the Tohatsu and I was ultimately forced to go to another dealer and buy and motor from them.
My first reason for writing this letter is to make certain this does not ever happen to another family again. My second reason is to make sure Defender is aware of the misconduct of the Service Department. My final reason for spending the time to write this letter is I very much would like to know how Defender feels about my experience. Will they take any action within the establishment to correct these issues. Lastly, will someone from Defender show compassion to my family and offer some type of compensation for our losses
With regard to "Scott" the manager, I'm appalled at his lack of compassion, respect, and most of all honesty.
I have never in my 42 years dealt with anyone more difficult, deceitful and just made my experience absolutely as miserable as possible.
I sent the letter certified to both owners of Defender and waited two weeks. On Monday August 5th, I called the owner Stephan Lance directly. He picked up the phone. I told him who I was and asked him if he received the letter. He confirmed he did receive it and blatantly said "I ignored it deliberately and have nothing for you."
I said "You have no comment on the lack of Customer Service or the inability of your Service Department to PDI an engine properly, placing me and family in dangerous situations?" He replied "We refunded your money." I said "I just wanted to give you an opportunity to respond before I post the facts of my entire ordeal with your company on every fishing and boating website." He said "We've been around for a long time, I'm not worried about what you are going to try to spread around."
I told him, "You sir, are a disgusting individual and ended the call.
I wasted most of the summer on this problem as you can see here in my post here- http://www.ctfishfinder.com/phpBB2/brand-new-out-of-box-tohatsu-problems-t9039.html
Finally. I did buy my new outboard from Diamond Yamaha in N. Haven and it was a fantastic experience.
I only regret I did not contact the press but was so beat down and stressed I didn't have it in me.
Dear Mr. Lance,
This year I was in the market for a small outboard engine for our inflatable. After researching different companies and reviewing "Defender's "About us" section and learning this was a successful "family run" company right out of CT, I was impressed to see Defender even sent rescue boats out to Thailand. I wanted to support it, despite tax implications and travel from Meriden, CT.
On June 12th I walked into the show room and was greeted by a friendly and knowledgeable gentleman. Shortly after being educated on my options, I was convinced the Tohatsu 3.5 was the right engine for us based on its reliability.
I decided to purchase "new" instead of "used" off Craigslist specifically for safety reasons.
I read the owners manual that night, placed the motor on a stand and properly added new oil into the engine and added the fuel stabilizer recommended by the salesman to the fresh gasoline I purchased that day.
I ran the engine and allowed it to idle for 20 minutes in a container of water. Upon completion, I closed the gas vent and turned the fuel cock to the "off" position.
On Saturday June 15th, my children and I traveled to Stonington, CT and experienced severe difficulty starting the motor. It continued to stall at the boat launch. After an hour of pull starting the engine finally idled. However, when we shifted out of Neutral and into gear, the engine would again stall. This continued for another hour. Eventually, we were able to shift and travel at the lowest throttle level. Being a brand new engine and after reading about "break in" I thought this may have been extreme, but maybe the engine needed to be run. We continued towards Sandy Point and as soon as I would attempt to increase the throttle from the lowest position, the motor would stall. At one point, I was desperately trying to pull start the engine as we were being swept into the shore of Sandy point and crashed into the surf. In my panic to restart the motor, I injured my thumb and wrist pulling on the rope starter. The Stonington Police came over to assist us. This entire situation was very traumatic for the children. I assured them this was a new engine and we would be fine after it worked itself out.
After 10 hours on the water, we continued to experience stalling and never could travel more then the lowest throttle setting without stalling.
I sent an Email to Defender the following day describing the problem. I received a timely and polite response from your service manager. He instructed me to drain the gas from the carb and to make certain the oil level was appropriate.
After following his instructions, I spent an hour attempting to start the motor in my garage to no avail.
I made the trip from Meriden back to Waterford to have the engine serviced and left. Within 50 minutes, Bruce called me on my cell phone. He said the reason for the problem was "Bad Chinese gas." I explained I purchased a brand new engine for security reasons, and this was unacceptable. (Please note, this motor is manufactured in Japan.) I explained only a new replacement engine would be appropriate before taking my children back out on the water. Bruce immediately denied my request.
I did more research on "Defender" and located the President's name, Stephan Lance. I called the main number at Defender and used the dial by name option. I left a message for Stephan summarizing what I have written here.
The following Monday or Tuesday I received a call from "Scott." I asked why I wasn't being contacted by the president. Scott said he was the manager and the message was sent to him to follow up on. I explained my entire situation with the engine again and explained I felt it was appropriate to swap it for a new one. Scott was very cold, never made any effort to apologize for the engine failure and wanted to focus on the topic of Ethanol. Eventually he said he would "find out" if the engine could be returned. Scott called me the next day. He very slowly told me we had three options, One, You can drive out to Waterford and listen to your engine run because the carb has been cleaned and it is running fine. I said "No." He slowly said option number two, I found another Tohatsu dealer closer to where you live and you can work with them. I replied "No." He said the third option is we can return the current engine and replace it with a new one. I said, "That is all I asked for." Then Scott went on to the subject of Ethanol and attempted to persuade me into other options like buying a larger motor. I said no, I just want a new engine that has not be harmed during "break in." I would like to be there when it is removed from the box and fill with oil and fuel with a mechanic. He said "When can you be here." I said "noon." Scott sighed and said, I have a lot of mechanics out for travel on that day." I said when would you like me to be there? He said you can come at noon.
The next day I made the trip back to Waterford. I waited for 20 minutes for someone to help me. Bruce escorted me out to Bay One where a Tohatsu 3.5 engine sat in a tank of water. I was confused. Why am I standing in front of this engine which is obviously not new. Bruce said this engine runs very well and you can start it or I will. At present, the engine is cold. I started the engine and it had lots of black/blue smoke coming out of it and stalled as I was feathering the choke.
I suddenly felt someone walk up behind me and waited to hear a voice. Finally I turned around. It was Scott, he was looking at the floor and reached his hand out. I said "You are not going to make any eye contact?" This was uncomfortable, embarrassing and gave me a very "guarded" feeling. He laughed sarcastically. We eventually got the motor started. After I shut it off with blue/black smoke pouring out, I looked at Scott and said "How do I know this is a new engine?" He and Bruce said at the same time, this is "your" engine. I said "We discussed option three last night and I was to have a boxed new motor waiting here!" I was absolutely appalled. Scott said "Ohhh, Okay, I just wasn't sure if you wanted to listen to the engine run, I must have misunderstood." (With a bizarre smirk on his face.) I was escorted back out of the bay and into the storage area and waited while they located a new boxed up engine. Scott disappeared and Bruce and I went over engine operation, discussed fuel additive options and ran the engine.
We ran it for a short period of time and at a low throttle level. I thanked Bruce and left.
I arrived home and placed the engine on a barrel of water and allowed it to warm up and run for an hour. The next day, I warmed up the motor and ran for another hour. For the first time I attempt to throttle slightly past the half way mark and the engine bogs out and stalls just like the first engine. I restart the engine, it idles and as soon as I attempt to throttle in gear in the water, the engine stalls. I repeated this a dozen times with the same result. I created a youtube account, then recorded a video and uploaded to the youtube site so Bruce could see what was happening. I again with this second new engine, unscrewed the carb and drained with a rag. Still same problem. Bruce contacts me via Email, apologizes for the motor not running and states he is unable to watch the video due to Internet security. He told me I would need to make the trip back again with the engine for examination and repair.
On Saturday June 29th I made the trip from Meriden to Waterford again with this second new engine.
On Tuesday July 2nd, Bruce left me a voice message stating the engine is now running properly and ready to be picked up again in Waterford. He did not tell me what was causing the problem. At this point, I had little confidence in the reliability of the motor or if anything had been done at all . I was concerned about making another trip, testing it out in the bay and having the same problem.
I did make another trip however and asked Bruce what the problem with this second new engine was. He claimed the exhaust in my barrel of water was going back into the piston causing the engine to stall. I did not feel confident about this diagnosis.
I immediately drove the motor to the bay. It started and I allowed it to warm up for twenty minutes. The stalling continued, over and over. I was barely able to get to a speed above the idle mark and the engine flooded and stalled in the bay. The winds picked up and I was desperately in a panic to save myself from being crashed into the rocks. I took on waves, and my fishing net, my zip locked phone and poles were all knocked out of the boat and sank.
Previously on a phone call with Bruce, he did say he was able to forward my youtube video to a counterparts phone. So I made a new video showing the problem again in the bay during calm waters. I sent the video to him via Email.
I explained at this point, if Bruce was unable to resolve this issue, I would be contacting the manufacturer with questions and escalating this problem above "Scott." I did not get a call from Bruce that day and called Tohatsu. I spoke with a gentleman by the name of "Vic." He was kind, friendly, informative and a true professional.
He said out of the box, every motor runs very rich and it is necessary to drill out the "brass plug" on the side of the carb first.
The butterfly needs to be centered in the throttle bore. The air fuel mixture needs to be adjusted and the idol should be set at 1350 RPM.
He said I should take a look at the motor to see if the brass plug has been drilled out. Vic held and I went to the basement to discover no drilling had been performed.
"Vic" also said the small 3.5's get returned a lot because the mechanics don't understand these smaller motors take a "lot more tweaking" to get them going. He said the motors all need to be adjusted to where they are positioned on the back of the boat.
He added, Tohatsu provides special classes during the winter to get everyone up to speed on the intricacies of this motor, but he said whenever the motors are returned to Tohatsu, it is because the mechanic has not been schooled properly or taken enough time to set everything up properly. I was floored.
I sent an Email to Bruce explaining why the motor has not been running. Within twenty minutes I received a call from a restricted phone number and answered the call. It was "Scott." He said "I understand you have still been having engine problems." I said yes and explained everything including my call to the manufacturer. He said "At this point, we are going to give you a refund on the engine." I was immediately confused. The problem all along has been exposed. This was completely ignorance on the part of Bruce, the service manager. He could have called the manufacturer as I did and had the answer a month before. Bruce's boss, Scott never once in any of my dealings with him said he was sorry or expressed any type of compassion. He seemed to serve as more of an obstacle in getting my situation resolved especially with the "bait and switch" when I arrived for a new engine weeks prior. I said to Scott, "You are going to give me my money back?" He said "Yes and you can move on." So we now know why the motor did not run. No one is taking responsibility for it. Neither Bruce or Scott contacted Tohatsu to inquire about my engines inability to run properly. No one is apologizing and no one is making some type of attempt to salvage this very damaged relationship I've experienced with Defender. I could not speak and there was silence on the phone for at least thirty seconds. I told Scott to have Bruce call Tohatsu so they could explain what he needed to do to properly PDI this type of Tohatsu 3.5. and we ended our call.
I thought about the entire situation and realized no one was going to help make things right. I sent Bruce an Email an hour later and communicated I would accept the offer to drive back out to Waterford again and drop the motor off for a refund.
On Thursday, July 11th I arrived to drop off the motor. Bruce and I had a brief discussion in the bay area and I explained to him in a calm voice, I believe in treating people with respect and honesty. I said in this case, Defender did not stand behind their product and placed myself and my family in harms way not once, but several times. Bruce was very defensive and said "Tohatsu did not tell us how to PDI a motor that way." He also said "Vic should never have told you that information and by doing so "He through ME under the bus." I said, "He told the truth, and when you have a product on your shelves for sale, you need to take responsibility for knowing how to send the product out working in a safe condition." Bruce absolutely refused to take any type of responsibility. In fact, Bruce actually stated my dealings with him were "unpleasant." I pointed out calmly, "I have remained calm and professional with you during this entire month." I don't believe being disrespectful or loud resolves anything." "Customer Service was my business for ten years in Pharma I.T. and another ten years in technical support for the largest phone company in the U.S.
I still cannot absorb what occurred over the past month. It would be impossible for me to explain all the vivid details and hours of madness. Today, marks exactly one month since I bought the Tohatsu and I was ultimately forced to go to another dealer and buy and motor from them.
My first reason for writing this letter is to make certain this does not ever happen to another family again. My second reason is to make sure Defender is aware of the misconduct of the Service Department. My final reason for spending the time to write this letter is I very much would like to know how Defender feels about my experience. Will they take any action within the establishment to correct these issues. Lastly, will someone from Defender show compassion to my family and offer some type of compensation for our losses
With regard to "Scott" the manager, I'm appalled at his lack of compassion, respect, and most of all honesty.
I have never in my 42 years dealt with anyone more difficult, deceitful and just made my experience absolutely as miserable as possible.
I sent the letter certified to both owners of Defender and waited two weeks. On Monday August 5th, I called the owner Stephan Lance directly. He picked up the phone. I told him who I was and asked him if he received the letter. He confirmed he did receive it and blatantly said "I ignored it deliberately and have nothing for you."
I said "You have no comment on the lack of Customer Service or the inability of your Service Department to PDI an engine properly, placing me and family in dangerous situations?" He replied "We refunded your money." I said "I just wanted to give you an opportunity to respond before I post the facts of my entire ordeal with your company on every fishing and boating website." He said "We've been around for a long time, I'm not worried about what you are going to try to spread around."
I told him, "You sir, are a disgusting individual and ended the call.
I wasted most of the summer on this problem as you can see here in my post here- http://www.ctfishfinder.com/phpBB2/brand-new-out-of-box-tohatsu-problems-t9039.html
Finally. I did buy my new outboard from Diamond Yamaha in N. Haven and it was a fantastic experience.
I only regret I did not contact the press but was so beat down and stressed I didn't have it in me.
