Have you run the "new" new engine out of the barrel? I'm not sure if you can spin it up to full throttle with that little water. Just a thought. I can imagine you're pissed as hell. Glad I didn't buy from Defender. I ran a 20hp Tohatsu for 2 seasons without a hitch that I purchased from OnlineOutboards in TN. They are the same engine off the same lines as the Mercs up to 25hp. Never heard the Chinese gas excuse. Pretty disgraceful service.
The "new new" engine has not be taken out to a lake yet. So no sir, its been run in the Barrel only. Maybe you have a point. I will keep everyone up to speed on what the mechanic says tomorrow. Thanks!
Update. Manager sends me an Email this morning, "Hello Mr. Blah-"
I am very sorry to hear that this motor is not working.
Unfortunately our online security will not allow me to look at the video.
Please bring in the motor to be examined and corrected."
Ummm, send the video to your boss or you bosses boss...WTF is wrong with you. No doubt, they have Internet access.
Called another dealer and explained situation. He said "China gas?" These engines are made in Japan.
I am very sorry to hear that this motor is not working.
Unfortunately our online security will not allow me to look at the video.
Please bring in the motor to be examined and corrected."
Ummm, send the video to your boss or you bosses boss...WTF is wrong with you. No doubt, they have Internet access.
Called another dealer and explained situation. He said "China gas?" These engines are made in Japan.
No return email or call back. 4:40 PM I call service manager directly who states him and a counterpart downloaded the video to one of their phones. "I'm sorry, you'll have to bring it back in." "There must be an obstruction in the carburetor."
I said, "What are the odds of this happening with two brand new engines?" He didn't know what to say.
Part of my documentation here is for others to learn from and be aware of and the other part is for whatever action I may or may not need to take.
I said, "What are the odds of this happening with two brand new engines?" He didn't know what to say.
Part of my documentation here is for others to learn from and be aware of and the other part is for whatever action I may or may not need to take.
if you want legal advice i would chat with peco from ctfishtalk. I dont know what type of lawyer he was but the only one i know for sure on the boards!!!!
Thank's John. I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. But at the very least, I will document everything including dates and quotes and see how the CEO wants to "make it right."
Just an update, got a call from the service manager telling me my motor was all set and to drive back to Waterford to pick it up. He didn't tell me what the problem was. I asked him and he said "There was too much water in your barrel container and when the engine ran the exhaust had no way of escaping because you were not moving forward through the water."
I didn't feel good about that excuse, but I took the motor right down the street to Dock Road and into the bay. Motor started stalling out again and doing the same thing.
I thought of my kids and the fact that almost a month has gone by now. Pretty disheartening.
Instead of calling Defender and whining again, I tried to doing some research on the Internet. I looked at my motor mount and saw I could move it up a couple inches. I also questioned myself about the inflation level and placing a couple car batteries up front.
Defender is open on Saturdays, so I figured I would head back out to the bay and if there was no change I would drop it of again.
This time, the motor did run a lot better, but still had bogging and stalling problems but not nearly as frequent as before.
The company that makes this inflatable, also manufactures a new improved motor mount kit to support a 40 pound engine. (This is what I'm currently using. ) This engine is 42lbs and the internal tank only holds 1/4 gallon of gas. I don't need or want to run it at full throttle, 3/4 or half would be nice though. I'm moving forward in the water and the motor is not sitting in it....like this guy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4FCtmZA5Tw
I have a feeling they are going to come back and tell me the motor is too big for the boat. But I've seen this motor on my model inflatable with the "old" motor mount. He is flexing the s*** out of his boat and his motor is sinking into the water and doesn't stall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-DSEKrUZg0
The new mount is WAY more stable and there is no flexing of the boat when throttling up. It keeps the motor a lot higher.
If anyone has any ideas or suggestions they would be very welcome.
Here is the most recent video I made. It's pretty tough using a cell phone so it's not the best angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5vj-dlwvIk&feature=em-upload_owner
I didn't feel good about that excuse, but I took the motor right down the street to Dock Road and into the bay. Motor started stalling out again and doing the same thing.
I thought of my kids and the fact that almost a month has gone by now. Pretty disheartening.
Instead of calling Defender and whining again, I tried to doing some research on the Internet. I looked at my motor mount and saw I could move it up a couple inches. I also questioned myself about the inflation level and placing a couple car batteries up front.
Defender is open on Saturdays, so I figured I would head back out to the bay and if there was no change I would drop it of again.
This time, the motor did run a lot better, but still had bogging and stalling problems but not nearly as frequent as before.
The company that makes this inflatable, also manufactures a new improved motor mount kit to support a 40 pound engine. (This is what I'm currently using. ) This engine is 42lbs and the internal tank only holds 1/4 gallon of gas. I don't need or want to run it at full throttle, 3/4 or half would be nice though. I'm moving forward in the water and the motor is not sitting in it....like this guy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4FCtmZA5Tw
I have a feeling they are going to come back and tell me the motor is too big for the boat. But I've seen this motor on my model inflatable with the "old" motor mount. He is flexing the s*** out of his boat and his motor is sinking into the water and doesn't stall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-DSEKrUZg0
The new mount is WAY more stable and there is no flexing of the boat when throttling up. It keeps the motor a lot higher.
If anyone has any ideas or suggestions they would be very welcome.
Here is the most recent video I made. It's pretty tough using a cell phone so it's not the best angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5vj-dlwvIk&feature=em-upload_owner
At this point, I'd demand a refund or a Nissan. They come off the same lines as the Tohatsu and are about the same price point. At least a different "brand" probably didn't come from the same production run. I would consider taking them to small claims court, as well as "rate" them on any sites I could locate. Be factual so they can't come back after you.
Just Googling them, I came across this on the first page:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/13482-boat-life-defender-marine-should-i-say-offender-marine.html
Just Googling them, I came across this on the first page:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/13482-boat-life-defender-marine-should-i-say-offender-marine.html
At this point, I'd demand a refund or a Nissan. They come off the same lines as the Tohatsu and are about the same price point. At least a different "brand" probably didn't come from the same production run. I would consider taking them to small claims court, as well as "rate" them on any sites I could locate. Be factual so they can't come back after you.
Just Googling them, I came across this on the first page:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/13482-boat-life-defender-marine-should-i-say-offender-marine.html
Thank You RNA. Even though this post is a decade old, so much of it is identical to many of my experiences. When I went to pick up the second motor everything in my conscious was screaming "This is all wrong!"
It is possible Defender feels they can treat people this way because they have the market. Maybe the manufacturer cares a little more about their reputation.
Thanks again!
RNA, you are right, Nissan makes the same exact motor....and this guy has his buried in the water...it is at 5:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4788MK-BM
Last edited by snapper on Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4788MK-BM
Last edited by snapper on Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Only other thing I can think of is going directly to Tohatsu, explaining the problem and emphasizing how disappointed you are that they would be represented by Defender. A call from corporate might be the incentive Defender needs.
http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/en/boat/profile.html
http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/en/boat/profile.html
I didn't hear from the service manager the next day so I contacted the manufacturer. The people there were great. They explained out of the box, the motors run way too rich. The carburetor has a brass "button" on it and it must be drilled out by the mechanic during the PDI. Air fuel then has to be adjusted. Check to see if yours has been drilled out. I went downstairs and nothing was drilled. He also told me about the butterfly and bore needing to be lined up and several other things.
So none of these things were done. During each of the times I returned the engine, the manufacturer was never contacted by Defender to ask for help or just make an inquiry like I did.
Later that afternoon, I get a call from a restricted phone number and it is the Service Manager's boss. He simply says "We're going to give you a refund and part ways." I told him I contacted the manufacturer and I knew why the engine was not running properly. He said Tohatsu should have never told me about those PDI details. I was speechless. There was at least twenty seconds of silence. No offer of apology. No offer to get me into another motor that they can make work properly, no offer to compensate me for the past month of travel and destroyed days on the water. It was almost like someone was deliberately going out of their way to say, "We absolutely could not possibly care any less about your situation and I'm going to rub it right in your face while playing dumb!" We have too much other business to waste our time. I told him to have his service manager contact Tohatsu so they could "educate" him on how to PDI the motor. We ended the call. I thought about it for an hour and left a message on the Service Mangers voice mail telling him I would drive out there again to return the engine for a refund.
I drove out today and dropped the motor off. The manager said "Tohatsu should not have given you that information, they through me under the bus." I said, they told me the truth and Defender should be taking responsibility. He said he is not responsible because Tohatsu didn't train him to PDI that way. I said if you are going to sell the product, you have to take responsibility for being negligent. He refused to take ownership as though he was coached. The manager says "I don't see the tool kit with the spark plug and manual, so we are going to have to charge you for it." We had words and I decided I would mail it back for a credit to my card.
So none of these things were done. During each of the times I returned the engine, the manufacturer was never contacted by Defender to ask for help or just make an inquiry like I did.
Later that afternoon, I get a call from a restricted phone number and it is the Service Manager's boss. He simply says "We're going to give you a refund and part ways." I told him I contacted the manufacturer and I knew why the engine was not running properly. He said Tohatsu should have never told me about those PDI details. I was speechless. There was at least twenty seconds of silence. No offer of apology. No offer to get me into another motor that they can make work properly, no offer to compensate me for the past month of travel and destroyed days on the water. It was almost like someone was deliberately going out of their way to say, "We absolutely could not possibly care any less about your situation and I'm going to rub it right in your face while playing dumb!" We have too much other business to waste our time. I told him to have his service manager contact Tohatsu so they could "educate" him on how to PDI the motor. We ended the call. I thought about it for an hour and left a message on the Service Mangers voice mail telling him I would drive out there again to return the engine for a refund.
I drove out today and dropped the motor off. The manager said "Tohatsu should not have given you that information, they through me under the bus." I said, they told me the truth and Defender should be taking responsibility. He said he is not responsible because Tohatsu didn't train him to PDI that way. I said if you are going to sell the product, you have to take responsibility for being negligent. He refused to take ownership as though he was coached. The manager says "I don't see the tool kit with the spark plug and manual, so we are going to have to charge you for it." We had words and I decided I would mail it back for a credit to my card.
